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Cyhist Jan 24 1997 H
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Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 23:50:33 -0500
Reply-To: dsenzig@execpc.com
Sender: "CYHIST Community Memory: Discussion list on the History of
Cyberspace" <CYHIST@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dsenzig@mail.execpc.com>
From: Don Senzig <dsenzig@mail.execpc.com>
Subject: CYHIST: emulation and Microsoft history
______________________________________________________________________
Community Memory: Discussion List on the History of Cyberspace ______________________________________________________________________
On 21 Jan 97 at 13:49, Peter da Silva wrote:
>______________________________________________________________________
>Community Memory: Discussion List on the History of Cyberspace ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>I believe the following information is accurate, but it's been over 20 years now and I learned it second hand well after the events in question.
>
>>When I started working at Intel in 1978, one of the most popular pieces of software they distributed (both to Universities and commercial organizations) was a suite of emulators which would allow a person to generate and compile code for microprocessors on other computers. Specifically, I recall the emulators for the 8080 which ran on the PDP-10.
>
>Which were used by Gary Kildall to develop CP/M before the 8080 was really solidly out there, giving CP/M a head start in the 8080 world.
>
>>systems. These were the "blue boxes" that were actually a self-contained system with text-editor and development software intended to simplify code development for microporcessors. (Actually, an early "personal computer").
Before CP/M was released I worked with a paper tape based editor and assembler that ran on an Intellec 80(sp?), which was a 8080 based blue box from Intel with a built-in 1702 EPROM programmer intended for development of 8080 based systems. After starting to use CP/M, I noticed that the Intellec(sp?) paper tape editor and the CP/M editor were almost identical. Later on I read somewhere that Gary Kildall had written the Intellec(sp?) paper tape tools, and had proposed what became CP/M to Intel as a development tool set.
CP/M had interesting features(artifacts?) like that binary file output of the assembler was composed of Intel hex records, a format that I believe started with with paper tape. Two of the standard devices were RDR: and PUN:.
Also I recall that the CP/M 1.4 and later 8" distribution disks came with a BIOS configured to run on an Intel box and the manual set showed the BIOS source for that machine as an example for writing your own BIOS.
>We have several of these boxes here.
>
>The operating system, ISIS, was clearly one of the models for CP/M. CP/M feels a lot like a cross between ISIS and a DEC operating system like RSX or TOPS. Which, given its background, isn't surprising.
I suspect that CP/M predated ISIS. Especially if Kildall in fact had written the more primitive Intel developement tools. I think that ISIS may have even been developed after other disk based 8080 development systems such as MicroKit. This was intially an audio cassette tape based 8080 development system with in-circuit emulator. Later floppy disk became available from MicroKit with MicroKit's own DOS.
As I recall Intel did not seem to think that 8080's were suitable computers to do 8080 development on until Kildall and others demonstrated it as plausible.
I always thought CP/M was most similar to DEC RT-11, RSX had a much more complex command structure and was setup to support multiple users. Some of the utilities used on DEC RT-11 and CP/M certainly seems to show influences, consider PIP which had a similar command structure and was the utility for copying files and such.
Although RT-11 at the time of CP/M 1.4 used command switches to the PIP or DUP programs to erase or rename files where CP/M had an ERA and REN command. In that regard, perhaps RT-11 was influenced by CP/M when later releases provided these....
Don Senzig, Jr - dsenzig@execpc.com - http://www.execpc.com/~dsenzig
______________________________________________________________________
Reply-To: dsenzig@execpc.com
Sender: "CYHIST Community Memory: Discussion list on the History of
Cyberspace" <CYHIST@SJUVM.STJOHNS.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <dsenzig@mail.execpc.com>
From: Don Senzig <dsenzig@mail.execpc.com>
Subject: CYHIST: emulation and Microsoft history
______________________________________________________________________
Community Memory: Discussion List on the History of Cyberspace ______________________________________________________________________
On 21 Jan 97 at 13:49, Peter da Silva wrote:
>______________________________________________________________________
>Community Memory: Discussion List on the History of Cyberspace ______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>I believe the following information is accurate, but it's been over 20 years now and I learned it second hand well after the events in question.
>
>>When I started working at Intel in 1978, one of the most popular pieces of software they distributed (both to Universities and commercial organizations) was a suite of emulators which would allow a person to generate and compile code for microprocessors on other computers. Specifically, I recall the emulators for the 8080 which ran on the PDP-10.
>
>Which were used by Gary Kildall to develop CP/M before the 8080 was really solidly out there, giving CP/M a head start in the 8080 world.
>
>>systems. These were the "blue boxes" that were actually a self-contained system with text-editor and development software intended to simplify code development for microporcessors. (Actually, an early "personal computer").
Before CP/M was released I worked with a paper tape based editor and assembler that ran on an Intellec 80(sp?), which was a 8080 based blue box from Intel with a built-in 1702 EPROM programmer intended for development of 8080 based systems. After starting to use CP/M, I noticed that the Intellec(sp?) paper tape editor and the CP/M editor were almost identical. Later on I read somewhere that Gary Kildall had written the Intellec(sp?) paper tape tools, and had proposed what became CP/M to Intel as a development tool set.
CP/M had interesting features(artifacts?) like that binary file output of the assembler was composed of Intel hex records, a format that I believe started with with paper tape. Two of the standard devices were RDR: and PUN:.
Also I recall that the CP/M 1.4 and later 8" distribution disks came with a BIOS configured to run on an Intel box and the manual set showed the BIOS source for that machine as an example for writing your own BIOS.
>We have several of these boxes here.
>
>The operating system, ISIS, was clearly one of the models for CP/M. CP/M feels a lot like a cross between ISIS and a DEC operating system like RSX or TOPS. Which, given its background, isn't surprising.
I suspect that CP/M predated ISIS. Especially if Kildall in fact had written the more primitive Intel developement tools. I think that ISIS may have even been developed after other disk based 8080 development systems such as MicroKit. This was intially an audio cassette tape based 8080 development system with in-circuit emulator. Later floppy disk became available from MicroKit with MicroKit's own DOS.
As I recall Intel did not seem to think that 8080's were suitable computers to do 8080 development on until Kildall and others demonstrated it as plausible.
I always thought CP/M was most similar to DEC RT-11, RSX had a much more complex command structure and was setup to support multiple users. Some of the utilities used on DEC RT-11 and CP/M certainly seems to show influences, consider PIP which had a similar command structure and was the utility for copying files and such.
Although RT-11 at the time of CP/M 1.4 used command switches to the PIP or DUP programs to erase or rename files where CP/M had an ERA and REN command. In that regard, perhaps RT-11 was influenced by CP/M when later releases provided these....
Don Senzig, Jr - dsenzig@execpc.com - http://www.execpc.com/~dsenzig
______________________________________________________________________
